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Darthvader

Very low pass rates = very high rank in France?

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Hey,

 

I am still not sure whether I should apply for the Assas law school and was wondering if anyone had some insight regarding something I saw in Wikipedia?

 

I noticed the pass rate was super low from first to second year as well as between the other ones, like 20%.

 

Does it mean that 80% of the students of that uni are idiots?

 

Such a high failure rate in the US would mean that the uni couldn't teach anything and would prolly have a very low rank among other universities.

 

I don't mean to offend anyone: in my opinion, this doesn't make Assas marketable.

Modifié par Darthvader

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Welcome !

 

The pass rate is absolutely wrong : around 50% of the students pass their exams from first to second year (and I'm absolutely sure of that)

 

To be honest, Assas is the best university in France if you want to study law.

 

Furthermore, this rate means that the level is extremely high and our university professors are extremely demanding !

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Thanks SophieC! I appreciate your help.

 

I don't really get it though. 50% is still low.

 

How do low pass rates make it more demanding there?

 

Harvard and Oxford have way more successful results, like 95% of the students pass each year. Are these schools not as demanding as Assas? jus saying

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You can't compare Harvard and Assas, that's impossible.

 

You can't go to Harvard "just like that". In France, university is "free" and for everyone, no matter what your results in high school were (French mentality :) ).

You just need to live in Paris or to be drawn in order to be chosen for Assas. There's absolutely no selection at the beginning.

The real selection is when you take your first year exams !

 

That's the big difference : for Harvard, the selection is at the beginning rather than during your studies

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in France, they expect every student to go to University, it's kind of the law. It doesn't mean students are less capable than others, it's just that the selection is different. As you can see in the States, you have to pay a lot to go to medecine school, in France, there's a lot of students in first year, then the selection begins.

 

there's a selection at the beginning, but it's a pool now, you can be lucky or not (when from France. Paris students are the first to be pick, then the other.)

 

Internationally speaking, I don't think that the pass rates underate us, as this is the way it works, it doesn't show the capability of teaching.

To explain, if the pass rates were higher, people would expect the courses to be cheap, and the teachers not very good, because that would mean the exams are pretty easy to pass, even too easy, and so, the diploma would be like buying bread at the bakery (just a picture to show you). We know we have to work hard from the beginning to the end to have our way through.

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Thanks for your answers, it makes much more sense to me.

 

How good is selecting through school years? Isn't selection taking over the teaching? Do you feel ready to work from what you've learned at uni?

 

I’ve heard that employers'd rather hire students from "grandes ecoles" for an internship than from uni. One of them told me that students from French universities were a bit off track regarding training. What do you think about it?

 

A good friend of mine in your uni spent months before finding an internship (not talking about jobs). He was taking a “Master 1”. Employers didn't wanna hire him because he had "just" been studying for 4 years. How crazy is this?

 

He also mentioned teachers didn’t care much about their students and how well they do. Is it true?

 

Finally how do you like studying there? Pleasant? Good feeling? Will you miss it?

 

To be honest with you, I've never heard of Assas law school before making researches about French universities. I thought La Sorbonne law school was the top uni for that kind of field. That's why I still haven't make up my mind. If nobody knows it except frenchies (which makes the amount of persons pretty low), how good will it be for my resume and even for myself?

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I am still unsure wether I should or not apply in Assas to study law so I'd like some tips about something I read on its Wikipedia page.

 

 

SophieC, Gadabrielle have answered your main question but I would like to give you a piece of advice if I may.

 

If you plan to spend one or several semester living in France, you will need to learn and use at least a little bit of French, unless you plan on not mingling with French people and returning to the US thinking how unpleasant living in Paris was and how "rude" the French were to you.

 

Maybe you already planned to do so but this is not obvious from your attitude here. As you might have noticed, Assas is a francophone university and this forum is francophone too, yet, you did not hesitate to post here in English, without even asking if this is acceptable here or if people can and want to exchange in that language, when someone answered you that he does not speak English, you did not try to provide a translation for him (even in very broken French if you are a beginner) or at least apologize for the inconvenience, you simply ignored his comment. If you adopt the same attitude in your travel in Paris, some people will consider that to be very discourteous and will respond rudely in return. I understand that you probably did not do this on purpose but I am just giving you a friendly heads-up as to the reactions you will encounter.

 

On a more academic level, you have to realise that the professors in Assas speak rather fast and a lot of them do not provide any kind of notes so even if they tend to be more lenient with exchange students and even if other students will be willing to help you, you will need a fairly good knowledge of French in order to pass.

 

@Jean : Résumé du topic :

Il voulait savoir si le niveau à Assas est bon vu qu'aux US un fort taux d'échec est signe de fac de merde.

SophieC et Gadabrielle lui ont expliqué que c'est parce que le système est différent en France.

J'ai posté pour souligner qu'il devrait faire des efforts pour parler un minimum français s'il a l'intention de s'intégrer et j'ai donné l'exemple de son attitude ici qui va être considérée comme peu courtoise pour certains.

 

Édit : il a posté une réponse entre-temps mais peut-être qu'il a compris qu'il pourrait faire un minimum d'effort de traduction pour pas exclure ceux qui ne parlent pas anglais.

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A good friend of mine in your uni

 

To be honest with you, I've never heard of Assas law school before making researches about French universities. I thought La Sorbonne law school was the top uni for that kind of field. That's why I still haven't make up my mind. If nobody knows it except frenchies (which makes the amount of persons pretty low), how good will it be for my resume and even for myself?

 

:mmh:

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a friend read and shared to post the following:

 

 

Apologies for my English @Chupito and @Jean, but I don’t speak French so it may be not appropriate for my comments here. For those of you who have answered in English – thank you this is very interesting to follow!

 

A friend who intends to attend your university pointed me to this thread. As an American who is a graduate from a university in Scotland, and had many conversations with French friends about this topic.

 

Is it appropriate for the universities to encourage students to sign up for a course program, which they are not prepared to pass. By accepting students who are not prepared to thrive in your program, you are encouraging them to make poor personal investment in time and resources. Does the school do this simply because the government pays enrollment fees for these 50% who fail regardless and therefore fund the education of the others to carry on? This seems inappropriate and not good stewardship of resources and time for all those involved. It must be the administrators who are looking for funding regardless of capacity to thrive in the first year program.

 

Hope my perspective is not offensive, just wanted to through in my thoughts for the forum, as I have had this conversation about the school system here in the US as well with my USA professor friends. We have private funding in the states, which encourages students to pursue an education even when they too are not dedicated to studies, and at the end are carrying debt they cannot pay back and a poor education which won’t aid them in getting a job to pay the fees. We have some of the same challenges here as well. People have an entitlement mentality, which causes them to pursue things they are not committed to.

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We know La Sorbonne is more famous around the world because it's one of the first uni ever, (that's one of the main reason assas is now affiliated with la Sorbonne I think), but in France, assas gets better results than La Sorbonne.

 

The difference with the US is that in France, they expect every one to get the chance to have access to education, for free until you're 16, then for a small fee, and not to have debts and debts for studying. In the US, some people attend uni only because they have the money too.

Of course, some studies are expensive, but there's always a way to find it cheaper.

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I’ve heard that employers'd rather hire students from "grandes ecoles" for an internship than from uni. One of them told me that students from French universities were a bit off track regarding training. What do you think about it?

That's true. We don't have any internship during the year (excepted some students of course), so we try to work in law firms in summer.

 

A good friend of mine in your uni spent months before finding an internship (not talking about jobs). He was taking a “Master 1”. Employers didn't wanna hire him because he had "just" been studying for 4 years. How crazy is this?

Just a precision : 4 years is nothing. You need a "Master 2" at the very least, because Master 1 is not really selective. On the contrary, Master 2 is very selective.

However, I don't understand why he didn't find any internship. I had one in Licence 2, and a lot of my friends too.

 

He also mentioned teachers didn’t care much about their students and how well they do. Is it true?

In first year, we were sometimes 1600 students in the amphitheater. That's extremely difficult for a teacher to know everyone. However, we have teaching assistants that really care about us.

 

Finally how do you like studying there? Pleasant? Good feeling? Will you miss it?

Great. Excellent teachers, food friends, wonderful time with Assas.net :D

 

If nobody knows it except frenchies (which makes the amount of persons pretty low), how good will it be for my resume and even for myself?

That's not because you don't know something that recruiters and professionnals don't know Assas ;)

And reasons are pretty obvious to choose to study in Assas : learning french, discovering the country... If you don't know why you want to study abroad, it seems quite obvious that you're not ready to leave your country...

 

 

 

Par ailleurs, je suis extrêment déçue que tu ne parles pas français dans ce topic alors que tu parlais très bien français dans celui-ci :

www.assas.net/forum/topic/428049-les-demandes-de-cours/page__st__460+darthvadernerd%40gmail.com&cd=1&hl=fr&ct=clnk&gl=fr

Modifié par SophieC

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Bon, maintenant que j'ai bien rigolé, y a un truc qui me perturbe dans l'histoire : as-tu finalement réussi à récupérer les cours de droit de la concurrence qui te manquaient, Darthvader :mmh: ?

"Just askin", hein.

 

Le débat peut être intéressant, mais pas la peine de se faire passer pour un étudiant anglo-saxon et d'induire les forumeurs en erreur pour en discuter, on a une section Actualité et Politique pour ça ;)

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